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Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:43 pm
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Syed Aslam
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Post subject: Just as "command economy" failed, so will "co Reply with quote




This is no way to strengthen democracy
Just as "command economy" failed, so will "command politics"
Mahfuz Anam

The only reason that the caretaker government has survived six months in power, and the chief advisor acknowledges it every time an occasion arises, is because the general public think of it to be an instrument to strengthen democracy. But now if this very instrument of 'strengthening democracy' becomes a symbol of mindless and arbitrary use of power, then how will the public distinguish it from such previous abusers of power and continue to lend it support?
As a newspaper which supported the reform process of this government, we raise the above question in all seriousness. For we think by arresting Sheikh Hasina on charges that can easily be tried without her internment, the government has put at risk all its achievements of the last six months. To us Sheikh Hasina's arrest is totally misconceived and smacks of arrogant use of power without due process of law. To say that nobody is above the law must also mean that law is not the handmaiden of anybody either.


Examine the arbitrariness with which Sheikh Hasina's has been treated. She was allowed to go abroad and just because she spoke out against some actions of this government, (having earlier promised to ratify everything) suddenly several cases were filed against her. Then, when every government would want an accused to return to the country to face the charges, the government decided that she would not be allowed to come. Why and under what law and whose authority, we still don't know. In a most childish move all foreign airlines were asked not to take her on board, ignoring specific international laws that govern international travel. Then, just as suddenly she was allowed to return to a tumultuous welcome at the airport, which then resulted in cases against 5,000 unidentified attendees. (How these cases will be pursued only God knows).


Things were quiet for a while as the AL chief kept mum. She was allowed some movement but stopped whenever she would make a comment. In the latest instances of arbitrariness, Sheikh Hasina was allowed to visit the ailing Sabina Yasmin but Khaleda Zia was not.


In Khaleda Zia's case a comedy was enacted with her going abroad. The plan was to send her into exile and the bargaining was whether or not she will be allowed to take her two sons with her. We saw the drama of Koko -- being charged with extortion (same as Sheikh Hasina), arrested and then released within a day with the case still pending. The drama continued for days which later turned out to be a farce as the BNP chief did not even have a visa for any country willing to host her. She had to negotiate to visit her husband's grave and seek clearance every time she went anywhere. Again the question is why, and under what law her movements are curtailed.


We trust the chief of staff when he says that the Army is not involved in politics or forming any new party. But what do we do when we receive reports from our correspondents that district administrators are making lists of so-called clean politicians and that many of them are being visited by the powers that be goading them to join the new so-called king's party? What do we do when senior leaders of both the BNP and the AL tell us of powerful visitors asking them to move against their party leaders or face corruption charges?

We would like to strongly suggest that this is no way to strengthen democracy. Just as 'command economy' failed so will 'command politics'. The core of democracy is people's right to choose their leaders and those who will represent them in the government. We accept that we made some bad choices in the past. We accept that our leaders, including Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia, betrayed our trust in many cases and over many years. We also agree that we got tired and fed up with confrontational and destructive politics and that we all yearned for a change. But we never agreed to bargain our democracy for 'knights in shining armour' to save us from dire straits.


We repeat that we welcomed the emergency for the simple reason that the election that was looming before us was going to further destroy our democracy, which had been battered by years of partisan politics from both sides. We supported the caretaker government, and we still do, simply because we want to go back to democracy, albeit greatly strengthened and made free of corruption. But arresting leaders at whim and 'punishing' them for making critical comments is no way of doing that.


In reference to the economy our Nobel Laureate Prof Muhammad Yunus had told an earlier government: "We do not need your help, just remove the obstacles and let people do the rest." We say the same thing today about politics to the caretaker government and to the armed forces that is helping them. We don't need your help in doing politics. Just remove the obstacles and let people do the rest. Here obstacles means corruption, lack of appropriate laws, necessary oversight mechanism, independent judiciary, Election Commission, Anti-Corruption Commission, Public Service Commission, depoliticised bureaucracy and law enforcement agencies.

Much of the above the government is doing, and creditably so. But the tragedy is that it is doing something more. It is attempting to manipulate our politics by trying to predetermine who will be and who will not be a part of its future. This is neither desirable nor doable and even if forced, not sustainable. Every leader possessing slightest bit of integrity will shy away from being a part of this process. Those who will be forced to participate in this process will lack credibility to command any respect and thus be unable to provide stability. And those who will volunteer to be a part of this process, and there will be many as there has been in the past, will not be worth the paper their names will be written on.

If anybody expects to bring about a dynamic Bangladesh through such group of opportunists can only be termed as being totally devoid of any knowledge of history, especially of this part of the world, and specifically of Bangladesh.

The chief election commissioner's roadmap of Sunday had cleared the air considerably about the coming elections. But yesterday's arrest of Sheikh Hasina brought in some dark clouds over the election horizon. Suspicion has been sown that though the process and mechanics of the coming election may be free and fair, through "command politics" those participating in it may be pre-selected and thereby predetermining the outcome. Simply put "command politics" will yield "command victors" and thus instead of elected government we'll have a puppet government.


We hope that the above nightmarish scenario will not happen. For us to believe that it is imperative that immediate and credible steps be taken to remove all suspicion about it. For a start we think Sheikh Hasina should be set free. Let all credible cases be brought against her and let her face the law and the courts and let the people judge her for what she is. Further we need lifting of ban on indoor politics. This will allow the reformists and the old guards to fight in the open and give the public a chance to understand the issues and make their judgment. It is our firm belief that there is a groundswell of support for reforms in every aspect of our politics. The leaders who will oppose reforms will be rejected by the voters, if not by the party activists and supporters. But the reform process has to be open and free, and not manipulated.

We conclude by urging the army-backed caretaker government not to jeopardise the whole reform process and the considerable success that this government has achieved in fighting corruption and bringing some institutional reforms by witting or unwittingly becoming over-ambitious and taking more on their plate than they can digest. The fundamental mistake committed by past proponents of "command politics" was to underestimate the wisdom of our masses. We cannot afford a repeat of that mistake.

http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/07/17/d7071701022.htm




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:46 pm
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Parvez
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I could not agree more. The trouble for these thugs has been spelled out through the arrest of Hasina. Rest assured, these people will be doomed. Fun just started here.




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:53 pm
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Shah Abdul Hannan
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Dear members,
Assalamu alaikum.It is a couragepus editorial , however I find the Star and Mahfuz Anam sb partially responsible for the present situation. Please see my comments below in third brackets.

Shah Abdul Hannan

The only reason that the caretaker government has survived six months in power, and the chief advisor acknowledges it every time an occasion arises, is because the general public think of it to be an instrument to strengthen democracy. But now if this very instrument of 'strengthening democracy' becomes a symbol of mindless and arbitrary use of power, then how will the public distinguish it from such previous abusers of power and continue to lend it support?
As a newspaper which supported the reform process of this government, we raise the above question in all seriousness. For we think by arresting Sheikh Hasina on charges that can easily be tried without her internment, the government has put at risk all its achievements of the last six months. To us Sheikh Hasina's arrest is totally misconceived and smacks of arrogant use of power without due process of law. To say that nobody is above the law must also mean that law is not the handmaiden of anybody either.
Examine the arbitrariness with which Sheikh Hasina's has been treated. She was allowed to go abroad and just because she spoke out against some actions of this government, (having earlier promised to ratify everything) suddenly several cases were filed against her. Then, when every government would want an accused to return to the country to face the charges, the government decided that she would not be allowed to come. Why and under what law and whose authority, we still don't know. In a most childish move all foreign airlines were asked not to take her on board, ignoring specific international laws that govern international travel. Then, just as suddenly she was allowed to return to a tumultuous welcome at the airport, which then resulted in cases against 5,000 unidentified attendees. (How these cases will be pursued only God knows).
Things were quiet for a while as the AL chief kept mum. She was allowed some movement but stopped whenever she would make a comment. In the latest instances of arbitrariness, Sheikh Hasina was allowed to visit the ailing Sabina Yasmin but Khaleda Zia was not.
In Khaleda Zia's case a comedy was enacted with her going abroad. The plan was to send her into exile and the bargaining was whether or not she will be allowed to take her two sons with her. We saw the drama of Koko -- being charged with extortion (same as Sheikh Hasina), arrested and then released within a day with the case still pending. The drama continued for days which later turned out to be a farce as the BNP chief did not even have a visa for any country willing to host her. She had to negotiate to visit her husband's grave and seek clearance every time she went anywhere. Again the question is why, and under what law her movements are curtailed.
We trust the chief of staff when he says that the Army is not involved in politics or forming any new party. But what do we do when we receive reports from our correspondents that district administrators are making lists of so-called clean politicians and that many of them are being visited by the powers that be goading them to join the new so-called king's party? What do we do when senior leaders of both the BNP and the AL tell us of powerful visitors asking them to move against their party leaders or face corruption charges?
We would like to strongly suggest that this is no way to strengthen democracy. Just as 'command economy' failed so will 'command politics'. The core of democracy is people's right to choose their leaders and those who will represent them in the government. We accept that we made some bad choices in the past. We accept that our leaders, including Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia, betrayed our trust in many cases and over many years. We also agree that we got tired and fed up with confrontational and destructive politics and that we all yearned for a change. But we never agreed to bargain our democracy for 'knights in shining armour' to save us from dire straits.


We repeat that we welcomed the emergency for the simple reason that the election that was looming before us was going to further destroy our democracy, which had been battered by years of partisan politics from both sides. We supported the caretaker government, and we still do, simply because we want to go back to democracy, albeit greatly strengthened and made free of corruption. But arresting leaders at whim and 'punishing' them for making critical comments is no way of doing that. [It was not proper for Daily Star and Mr Mahfuz to support the emergency un conditionally as they have done most of the time. They should have insisted for a quick election which was and is the solution for the country.A country can live with corruption but not with total uncertainty as is the position now. Nobody knows what will happen next and how to get out of the present uncertainity. Election should not have been delayed for corruption issue. The corruption cases could be filed and then the law would have taken its course. We can not solve all problems through emergency which has many other bad effects]
In reference to the economy our Nobel Laureate Prof Muhammad Yunus had told an earlier government: "We do not need your help, just remove the obstacles and let people do the rest." We say the same thing today about politics to the caretaker government and to the armed forces that is helping them. We don't need your help in doing politics. Just remove the obstacles and let people do the rest. Here obstacles means corruption, lack of appropriate laws, necessary oversight mechanism, independent judiciary, Election Commission, Anti-Corruption Commission, Public Service Commission, depoliticised bureaucracy and law enforcement agencies.
Much of the above the government is doing, and creditably so. But the tragedy is that it is doing something more. It is attempting to manipulate our politics by trying to predetermine who will be and who will not be a part of its future. This is neither desirable nor doable and even if forced, not sustainable. Every leader possessing slightest bit of integrity will shy away from being a part of this process. Those who will be forced to participate in this process will lack credibility to command any respect and thus be unable to provide stability. And those who will volunteer to be a part of this process, and there will be many as there has been in the past, will not be worth the paper their names will be written on.
If anybody expects to bring about a dynamic Bangladesh through such group of opportunists can only be termed as being totally devoid of any knowledge of history, especially of this part of the world, and specifically of Bangladesh.
The chief election commissioner's roadmap of Sunday had cleared the air considerably about the coming elections. But yesterday's arrest of Sheikh Hasina brought in some dark clouds over the election horizon. Suspicion has been sown that though the process and mechanics of the coming election may be free and fair, through "command politics" those participating in it may be pre-selected and thereby predetermining the outcome. Simply put "command politics" will yield "command victors" and thus instead of elected government we'll have a puppet government.
We hope that the above nightmarish scenario will not happen. For us to believe that it is imperative that immediate and credible steps be taken to remove all suspicion about it. For a start we think Sheikh Hasina should be set free. Let all credible cases be brought against her and let her face the law and the courts and let the people judge her for what she is. Further we need lifting of ban on indoor politics. This will allow the reformists and the old guards to fight in the open and give the public a chance to understand the issues and make their judgment. It is our firm belief that there is a groundswell of support for reforms in every aspect of our politics. The leaders who will oppose reforms will be rejected by the voters, if not by the party activists and supporters. But the reform process has to be open and free, and not manipulated.
We conclude by urging the army-backed caretaker government not to jeopardise the whole reform process and the considerable success that this government has achieved in fighting corruption and bringing some institutional reforms by witting or unwittingly becoming over-ambitious and taking more on their plate than they can digest. The fundamental mistake committed by past proponents of "command politics" was to underestimate the wisdom of our masses. We cannot afford a repeat of that mistake. [ we are now suffering from the disease called REFORMITIS".It has become a hollow slogan. We require a few changes in the party constitutions to ensure election in all stages and transparency of party funds, some changes in electoral law.We are making it a fad to help interested quarters.What we require more is mindset and political culture which will come over time]

http://www.thedailystar.net/2007/07/17/d7071701022.htm




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:56 pm
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Ziaur Rahman
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Dear All,

I have read the editorial by Mahfuz Anam and the bracketed commentary
by Shah Abdul Hannan. I would really want both of you to close your
eyes and go back prior to 11/1/07. Do you see a happy Bangladesh
emerging from those pictures? Do you see a direction set by the
political leaders and their cohorts??? Do you see any resolve or road
map given by them to change the fate of Bangladesh on or before that
landmark date?

If you see a wonderful tomorrow standing on the edge of 11/1/07, then
I have nothing to say, but to think that either I am on a colossal day
dreaming exercise or vice-versa.

Now, coming back to the present day Bangladesh, it is true that some
politically inclined persons are losing sleep, but the common person
like me is breathing freedom. I must however, share with the
politically inclined or politically enlightened persons like Mahfuz
Anam or Shah Abdul Hannan that my freedom can also be short lived;
however, given the present predicament, I feel confident that
Bangladesh is on a mission with a set of targets, a) Clean the
political system and put worthy people in place, b) Reduce corruption
and work out the modalities of an independent judiciary, c) Try and
attempt at making Bangladesh ethically responsible by inculcating good
governance and high moral standards, d) set election date with
clarity, etc.

Yes, these are done under the cloak of ARMY (yes military might),
which has been the guiding factor in today's business of Bangladesh
that is keeping the alarm level high. I, too, believe that military
backed government is not the answer, but when the political elites
play 'games with the lives of people and swindle as they please, then
where is the moral right to bring back the empty and polluted regime
that we called 'democracy?'

I think we almost killed 'democracy;' ironically, it is the army
backed CTG that is bringing some semblance of order in the grounds of
Bangladesh. For a while, I was almost experiencing the famed 'wild,
wild, west,' but the specter was removed 16,000 away in a small
southern country called Bangladesh.

Last comment: military is not the solution, so we have to begin the
formation of a healthy political atmosphere, but what has been wronged
over 36 years cannot be righted in 7 months. We have to be patient.

We ought to give time to the CTG to move towards effecting meaningful
changes and hold our patience and verbal lashes; otherwise, we will
become change agents for the worse unknowingly.

Thank you.

Ziaur Rahman
IITM

Source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/khabor/




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:58 pm
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Kawser Jamal
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You got some strong points there Zia bhai.

thanks
Kawser Jamal




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:00 pm
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Ziaur Rahman
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Dear Kawser bhai,

Thanks for your comments. Dr. R. H. Khandaker had sent me an email
where he pointed to the fact that politics should be age-neutral. He
mentioned that the most corrupt of Bangladesh were actually quite
young, so I would also advocate age-neutrality from now on, but
sensible and decent leadership are a must.

However, we cannot let Bangladesh slide back to total turmoil. I was
just thinking this morning that I have crossed 40 and have nothing
spectacular to show forth not because I do have the capacity (
sometimes capacity has been a factor), but because I had decided to
stay clean, meaning I do not try to corrupt others by giving bribe or
taking bribe( taking bribe is not really possible in the capacity of
my business).

However, many people around me are moving up just by giving bribes or
doing shady deals. It is hurting me and these people are becoming the
'movers and shakers' while I travel to places in a rickshaw or a bus.

The world is very much 'money driven' and status and social standing
are equated through money, cars, houses, etc.

We live in a 'grand scheme of wrongs' that people cannot relate to or
interested in relating to.

So, you see the battle is uphill and at every corner. Do we have the
strength of mind to fight this battle?? What happens to our children
when we stay poor and the rest moves up?? These are practical and
fundamental questions.

I am not having a change of heart but simply thinking aloud and
putting some practical issues forward that affects our next generation
at the cost of our 'gung-ho' atitude to stay clean.

Take care.

Source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/khabor




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:13 pm
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parvez_imhk
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Quote:
Dear All,

I have read the editorial by Mahfuz Anam and the bracketed commentary
by Shah Abdul Hannan. I would really want both of you to close your
eyes and go back prior to 11/1/07. Do you see a happy Bangladesh
emerging from those pictures? Do you see a direction set by the
political leaders and their cohorts??? Do you see any resolve or road
map given by them to change the fate of Bangladesh on or before that
landmark date?


So what is the point here? The fact that there was nasty turmoil in
the country does not mean that it would justify forcing so called
reform. The issue of Mahfuz Anam WAS NOT WHETHER A REFORM IS NEEDED
OR NOT. INSTEAD, IT WAS ABOUT THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE. How does
the precceing turmoil justify this thuggish enforcement? Please be
spoecific and be not carried away with other issues to obscure
things.

Quote:
Now, coming back to the present day Bangladesh, it is true that some
politically inclined persons are losing sleep, but the common person
like me is breathing freedom. I must however, share with the
politically inclined or politically enlightened persons like Mahfuz
Anam or Shah Abdul Hannan that my freedom can also be short lived;
however, given the present predicament, I feel confident that
Bangladesh is on a mission with a set of targets, a) Clean the
political system and put worthy people in place, b) Reduce corruption
and work out the modalities of an independent judiciary, c) Try and
attempt at making Bangladesh ethically responsible by inculcating good
governance and high moral standards, d) set election date with
clarity, etc.


You may feel it that way. No one would object to that. However, it
appears rather childish to me. The problem is that evil (eve if
lesser one as you yourself termed it somewhere I read) can't induce
good but devilish (perhaps lesser one?) things only. Any sensible
person would agree to the fact that a reform waw necessary in the
country. For me (or mahfuz Anam, for that matter), it has to be
sustainable and matured. Reform can be induced and not forced
upon.


Quote:
Yes, these are done under the cloak of ARMY (yes military might),
which has been the guiding factor in today's business of Bangladesh
that is keeping the alarm level high. I, too, believe that military
backed government is not the answer, but when the political elites
play 'games with the lives of people and swindle as they please, then
where is the moral right to bring back the empty and polluted regime
that we called 'democracy?'


Let me ask the question again: WHY NOT TAKE MATTER TO THE PEOPLE?
WHY DOING ALL SORT OF DEVILISH THING IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE?

Quote:
I think we almost killed 'democracy'

Agreed.

Quote:
ironically, it is the army
backed CTG that is bringing some semblance of order in the grounds of
Bangladesh. For a while, I was almost experiencing the famed 'wild,
wild, west,' but the specter was removed 16,000 away in a small
southern country called Bangladesh.


What do you mean?

Quote:
Last comment: military is not the solution, so we have to begin the
formation of a healthy political atmosphere, but what has been wronged
over 36 years cannot be righted in 7 months. We have to be patient.


This is absolute nonsense. Military cannot establish healthy
political system especially when they are trying to manipulate the
politics and hararssing people. Politics comes from the people and
not from military.

Quote:
We ought to give time to the CTG to move towards effecting meaningful
changes and hold our patience and verbal lashes; otherwise, we will
become change agents for the worse unknowingly.


No way.
Given that they demonstrated their malicious behavior and intention
over and over, they have to be thrown away outright. Perhaps if I
meet anyone of them involved in such notoriety ever, that will be
his last day on the earth - come what may.

Politicians did many wrongs and mistakes and the country needed a
massive reform but nothing on earth would justify the arrogance of
the military. These politicians are the ones who drove the nation
up to this point. Had politicians not lead the liberation war -
especially poor Mujib who took immense suffering for this nation and
is probably now wailing in the grave on the humiliation of his
daughter - this SOB moinuddin would not have been a general. He
would hardly have been a captain licking the feet of a Punjabi
general. Many of the reformer pundits shouting loud from abroad
wouldn't at all have been where they are now.

All my life I hated Hasina for her nasty mouth and habit. But I
could not stand the humiliation she was taken through. There must
be a revenge for this and a very brutal revenge at that.

I have nothing personally against you. We have different views.
Please be specific if you respond to my points. I am quite busy and
may not be able get back as fast anyway.


Source:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/khabor[/quote]




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Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:40 pm
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Ziaur Rahman
Guest





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I thought of closing my comments, but since you took the trouble to
explain your points, I would like to add some points to the specific
areas where you had agreed or disagreed with me. I have given my input
right after your points (see below).

Ziaur Rahman

IITM
Dhaka

Quote:
Quote:
Dear All,

I have read the editorial by Mahfuz Anam and the bracketed commentary
by Shah Abdul Hannan. I would really want both of you to close your
eyes and go back prior to 11/1/07. Do you see a happy Bangladesh
emerging from those pictures? Do you see a direction set by the
political leaders and their cohorts??? Do you see any resolve or road
map given by them to change the fate of Bangladesh on or before that
landmark date?




So what is the point here? The fact that there was nasty turmoil in
the country does not mean that it would justify forcing so called
reform. The issue of Mahfuz Anam WAS NOT WHETHER A REFORM IS NEEDED
OR NOT. INSTEAD, IT WAS ABOUT THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE. How does
the precceing turmoil justify this thuggish enforcement? Please be
spoecific and be not carried away with other issues to obscure
things.


Agreed that Mahfuz Anam was talking about the way things were done. I
have read his articles over the years and I always felt that he had a
good point to make, but over emphasizing that democracy is what we
need. Democracy has a magnetic appeal to the west and many others. To
me democracy has really not worked properly in Bangladesh. Therefore,
I want to see a changed people's mindset during this regime where at
least some elements of democratic institution be introduced before
letting the political parties to work in Bangladesh.

I am not sure where were you doing the last few years. Had you been
here, you would have understood how deeply divided the country was and
there was almost no solution. It was all purely due to the insensitive
behavior of the parties.

As a normal citizen, we were completely stepped upon during those
times. The democracy that you or Mahfuz Anam preach is text book
democracy. I am from the street and the people I see on a daily basis
are the vast majority, frantic to lead a basic citizen's life. The
parties in the name of democracy had crushed this dream. If someone
wants to tell me that we still need to go through that exercise, I
would tell them to find another country and let us breathe.

We have no time to work the Western dictated and mandated democratic
form. It has not worked properly in Bangladesh. The democracy that the
West preaches is based on the understanding that citizens are more or
less uniformly educated. Here in Bangladesh that is not the case, so
we need to fit democracy in our clothes, otherwise you will have more
1/11s and then the politicians and elites will be hounded like dogs (
remember French Revolution).



Quote:
Quote:
Now, coming back to the present day Bangladesh, it is true that some
politically inclined persons are losing sleep, but the common person
like me is breathing freedom. I must however, share with the
politically inclined or politically enlightened persons like Mahfuz
Anam or Shah Abdul Hannan that my freedom can also be short lived;
however, given the present predicament, I feel confident that
Bangladesh is on a mission with a set of targets, a) Clean the
political system and put worthy people in place, b) Reduce corruption
and work out the modalities of an independent judiciary, c) Try and
attempt at making Bangladesh ethically responsible by inculcating good
governance and high moral standards, d) set election date with
clarity, etc.


You may feel it that way. No one would object to that. However, it
appears rather childish to me. The problem is that evil (eve if
lesser one as you yourself termed it somewhere I read) can't induce
good but devilish (perhaps lesser one?) things only. Any sensible
person would agree to the fact that a reform waw necessary in the
country. For me (or mahfuz Anam, for that matter), it has to be
sustainable and matured. Reform can be induced and not forced
upon.


I absolutely agree to your point that 'democracy has to be sustained
and be matured.' In that case, let the politicians begin their
education by first saying their sorrys to Bangladesh and then let the
public allow some select members of the political fore to come forward
to re-join politics. You may feel that the ARMY is only telling people
what to do. Please travel with me across Bangladesh ( I do it very
often) then see what the public is thinking. The public wants serious
change. I mentioned of old wine in a new bottle. Believe me, that is
exactly what is going to happen if you let the politicians to dictate
the public from tomorrow.

We are in a transitional state in Bangladesh. Old style politics is
'dead.' The public and the people's forums are no infants anymore.
Change is taking place and the change is going to happen with the new
design. It is the design of a 'notun Bangladesh.'

It is not the Western styled 'notun Bangladesh.' It is 'made in
Bangladesh' and hopefully international meddling will not be
significant in detracting the 'notun Bangladesh' to prosper.

'Notun Bangladesh' is not about challenges and animosity. It is about
reason; it is about being level headed; it is about welcoming new and
young, people of all colors and religion; it is about a co-existence
of people in harmony; it is about development and power sharing.

We would like to take the good from the farthest corners of the world
and shun whatever is bad. The road to success is strewn with thorns.
Debates, we must do, but we have to weed out the thorns and move
forward with a 'Bangladesh fix,' not a fix by USA/EU or anyone else.
However, we live in a global village so we will dialog aplenty and
stay open for international scrutiny and vice versa, but should not be
someone's 'yes sir or mam.' Then that democracy is nothing but a
'command democracy' that Mahfuz Anam had rightly said.


Quote:
Quote:
Yes, these are done under the cloak of ARMY (yes military might),
which has been the guiding factor in today's business of Bangladesh
that is keeping the alarm level high. I, too, believe that military
backed government is not the answer, but when the political elites
play 'games with the lives of people and swindle as they please, then
where is the moral right to bring back the empty and polluted regime
that we called 'democracy?'


Let me ask the question again: WHY NOT TAKE MATTER TO THE PEOPLE?
WHY DOING ALL SORT OF DEVILISH THING IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE?


We are day dreaming. The people are always mis-guided by corrupt
politicians. I have absolutely no interest in playing another 'who is
right game' with Bangladesh. I may survive, but many will suffer
debilitating economic duress.

We need serious voter education before any democracy has to stand its
ground. The West will never tell you that. Let us begin to read
between the lines. Let us not blindly follow the Western democratic
models.


Quote:
Quote:
I think we almost killed 'democracy'

Agreed.

Quote:
ironically, it is the army
backed CTG that is bringing some semblance of order in the grounds of
Bangladesh.


This is not army backed goeverment but army under the guise of some
stooge. Saddam hussein also maintained order in his country by
brutality but at the end of the day we saw what the country is going
through - a consequence of enforcing political system.

It is seems to me the stooge has been weeding the corrupt people in
politics, business and other affairs. I will give more kudos to this
stooge than the 'total number of politicians' who had governed
Bangladesh for a long, long time. Please show me their report cards.
Let us compare.

Quote:
Quote:
For a while, I was almost experiencing the famed 'wild,
wild, west,' but the specter was removed 16,000 away in a small
southern country called Bangladesh.


What do you mean?


I meant the TEXAN 'wild, wild, west' period between before 1900. I
missed the miles after 16000. I wanted to suggest that Bangladesh went
thorough the same type of 'happy, go-lucky' period over the last 36
years, especially the last 20 years.

It was bad karma.





Quote:
Quote:
Last comment: military is not the solution, so we have to begin the
formation of a healthy political atmosphere, but what has been wronged
over 36 years cannot be righted in 7 months. We have to be patient.


This is absolute nonsense. Military cannot establish healthy
political system especially when they are trying to manipulate the
politics and hararssing people. Politics comes from the people and
not from military.


It is not nonsense to me. Yes, military is not the solution, but do
you want to go back to prior to 1/11??? You may have an utopian
feeling that if we let the political parties to work again, things
will be better.

Sorry, that is not going to happen. First, the political leadership
has to take responsibility of the magnitude of their devastation, then
the public can even think to give them the floor to talk. These
'sorrys' have to come from the top all the way to the bottom. They
have wronged Bangladesh more than anyone else ( including the
bureacrats and corrupt business people).

if you notice, the comments by the top leadership, then you will
notice absolutely no remorse. You may ask the jackel to guard your
chickens, but I will be the last person to take such a decision.



Quote:
Quote:
We ought to give time to the CTG to move towards effecting meaningful
changes and hold our patience and verbal lashes; otherwise, we will
become change agents for the worse unknowingly.


No way.
Given that they demonstrated their malicious behavior and intention
over and over, they have to be thrown away outright. Perhaps if I
meet anyone of them involved in such notoriety ever, that will be
his last day on the earth - come what may.

Politicians did many wrongs and mistakes and the country needed a
massive reform but nothing on earth would justify the arrogance of
the military. These politicians are the ones who drove the nation
up to this point. Had politicians not lead the liberation war -
especially poor Mujib who took immense suffering for this nation and
is probably now wailing in the grave on the humiliation of his
daughter - this SOB moinuddin would not have been a general. He
would hardly have been a captain licking the feet of a Punjabi
general. Many of the reformer pundits shouting loud from abroad
wouldn't at all have been where they are now.

All my life I hated Hasina for her nasty mouth and habit. But I
could not stand the humiliation she was taken through. There must
be a revenge for this and a very brutal revenge at that.


There is no choice. Who will you trust???? I will be a raving mad
person to trust these same old folks singing a different song in a
different environment. I would really think these guys had given
enough vision for Bangladesh to falter miserably. I do not wish them a
second chance, setting myself for a complete and utter failure. I
would ask them to pack their bags and baggage and leave politics.

We need to concentrate on the fact that CTG actually delivers what it
promised. We have no choice but to give them time. Final point,
Bangladesh was a very sick patient and recuperation will need time. We
have to be patient and worry about the outputs more than the
instruments in use in performing that operation.

If we do not have that sagacity, then we are eying destruction and
complete erosion of ethics and justice in the coming days.

Thank you.

Quote:
I have nothing personally against you. We have different views.
Please be specific if you respond to my points. I am quite busy and
may not be able get back as fast anyway.


It is good to debate and I have nothing against you as well. These are
my views against yours. In reality there has to be a common ground to
achieve to take Bangladesh forward.



Source:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/khabor




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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:19 am
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Popcorn
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Discusser


Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 6

Post subject: In response to parvez_imhk Reply with quote

You may feel it that way. No one would object to that. However, it
appears rather childish to me. The problem is that evil (eve if
lesser one as you yourself termed it somewhere I read) can't induce
good but devilish (perhaps lesser one?) things only. Any sensible
person would agree to the fact that a reform waw necessary in the
country. For me (or mahfuz Anam, for that matter), it has to be
sustainable and matured. Reform can be induced and not forced
upon.





It is a shame that the 'evil' has managed to produce one great good. That of preventing the country from sinking into bloodsheed.

What do you mean?

"but the specter was removed 16,000 away in a small
southern country called Bangladesh." - This sentence excluded, the meaning is easily discernable as retreival of civil order from the jaws of chaos.


No way.
Given that they demonstrated their malicious behavior and intention
over and over, they have to be thrown away outright. Perhaps if I
meet anyone of them involved in such notoriety ever, that will be
his last day on the earth - come what may




I can see an autocrat speak out here.


Had politicians not lead the liberation war -
especially poor Mujib who took immense suffering for this nation and
is probably now wailing in the grave on the humiliation of his
daughter - this SOB moinuddin would not have been a general.







Where is your people, buddy? They really feel ignored even here.


All my life I hated Hasina for her nasty mouth and habit. But I
could not stand the humiliation she was taken through. There must
be a revenge for this and a very brutal revenge at that.




Why not take the issue to the people?


Last edited by Popcorn on Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:59 am; edited 5 times in total




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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:43 am
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Popcorn
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Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 6

Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there....................




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